Puzzlng Evidence - Characteristics of Cloisonne Works by Lao Tian Li 老天利 - Floral Designs

A comment in a recent post about a lotus pond vase with a Lao Tian Li signature raised the question, "How can you tell if a piece is by Lao Tian Li without relying on the signature?"

This is, of course, the crucial question in attributing any kind of artwork to a specific artist or atelier.  So by way of example, I've pulled some signed Lao Tian Li pieces from my picture files that feature similar compositions and floral designs:

Note the peculiar bracket-shaped veins in the leaves, and the spiky symmetrical chrysanthemum petals.

The next picture shows the full view of this vase.

This vase was the topic of a discussion at the Asian Arts Forum.

An unsigned vase displaying the distinctive style of flowers and leaves seen in the examples above, but with a heavier rim and more abbreviated collar and foot motifs that seem more characteristic of the 1920s-30s.
  A piece from the Lao Tian Li studio, or not?  What's your opinion?  

UPDATE: Scrollwork at the top, but not filled in with different colors from the background - another abbreviated feature.

UPDATE: A somewhat similar pattern in a vase pair displayed on a Chinese website.  The signature stamp seems to be similar to that used on the lotus pond vase featured in a previous post, perhaps used in the 1920s or later.